tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post115329715100406608..comments2024-01-02T03:39:02.595-05:00Comments on Econo-Girl: Waterboarding is Torture, and Torture is WrongEcono-Girlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06710293494850428244noreply@blogger.comBlogger124125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-8308329264030086012008-09-05T19:20:00.000-04:002008-09-05T19:20:00.000-04:00I think we might have something similar to say - j...I think we might have something similar to say - just in different ways.<BR/><BR/>Apathy doesn't work. <BR/><BR/>Check this out.<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1EFAXT2CvA<BR/><BR/>Sacred Cows<BR/><BR/>Hope you guys get in touch with us.<BR/><BR/>-ism<BR/>ism@ismmusic.com<BR/>www.ismmusic.com-ismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07541629385641481422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-24595961140828031262008-04-06T01:56:00.000-04:002008-04-06T01:56:00.000-04:00Internet broadcasters We Hit & Run (http://wehitan...Internet broadcasters We Hit & Run (http://wehitandrun.info) used waterboarding as a political satire and on-air stunt...<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muPliLpTSb8Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07436612198326321097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-56061914831008709722008-01-19T05:10:00.000-05:002008-01-19T05:10:00.000-05:00Bubba,That's a lot of "if's" for engaging in tortu...Bubba,<BR/><BR/>That's a lot of "if's" for engaging in torture.<BR/> <BR/>You cannot deny there is a dynamic whereby the subject of torture is willing to validate almost anything to get the pain to stop. And there are others who will still lie to you. See the link https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no1/article06.html<BR/><BR/>Maybe you just wanted to believe the person knew critical information - more so than the facts justify. <BR/><BR/>Maybe there is a lot of pressure from your chain of command to get information and you would be willing to squeeze this guy a bit to get something. And you cannot deny something like that is a factor in making interrogation decisions.<BR/><BR/>The scenario you propose is not realistic. But a person could certainly convince themselves of it out of desperation.<BR/><BR/>In other places, a person would engage in torture to get information in circumstances similar to what you describe, but then they were willing to take the punishment that went along with it. You would need to be so certain that you would be willing to go to prison to save a life. That's where a lot of this waterboarding support falls short. <BR/><BR/>But remember, it is a classic failure of intelligence analysis to think that because you did tough things to get your information, that the information is therefore more valid than information that fell into your lap.<BR/><BR/>And a desperate person will convince themselves that an interrogation shortcut will give them the certainty they want so badly, but doesn't exist.Econo-Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06710293494850428244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-30910612510262122152008-01-19T00:32:00.000-05:002008-01-19T00:32:00.000-05:00Oops- left out a phrase (in CAPS): "...would you u...Oops- left out a phrase (in CAPS): "...would you use waterboarding on one of them whom you had captured a couple days earlier IF YOU THOUGHT THERE WAS A GOOD PROBABILITY THEY KNEW WHERE YOUR LOVED ONE WAS BEING HELD?"<BR/><BR/>Sorry about that.<BR/><BR/>Bubba with a BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-45335043082448299412008-01-19T00:25:00.000-05:002008-01-19T00:25:00.000-05:00Quick question, one that I have never heard anyone...Quick question, one that I have never heard anyone answer without squirming: if an Al Qaeda type had captured the person you loved the most (insert name here), and you had strong evidence that they were going to torturously kill them and soon, would you use waterboarding on one of them whom you had captured a couple days earlier? Have not met the person who would not do so. My liberal, ACLU/Amnesty Int'l/HRW-leaning sister admitted she would go a lot further than that- to the point of cutting off digits if it involved her son. How is that ANY different than increasing the chances of saving the lives of Americans here and abroad? I don't see a distinction when the hostage of Al Qaeda is not someone I happen to love. And since we are arguing here on principle, please do not use the pragmatic "info is not reliable" argument. <BR/><BR/>As a SERE graduate, who knew of the technique while at the school, I can assure you no one I knew there thought of it as true torture (not that I would use that as a philosophical justification as it is argumentum ad popularum- more of a snack for thought. Instead I would invoke the "greatest good" argument of hierarchical absolutism). <BR/><BR/>Bubba with a BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-74980385439345591142007-11-12T16:16:00.000-05:002007-11-12T16:16:00.000-05:00"Guess it's not quaint anymore, eh? "That's what p..."Guess it's not quaint anymore, eh? "<BR/>That's what pissed off the "7th floor."<BR/><BR/>And look for the soldier's oath to remove the bit about constitution and domestic enemies real soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-4025805122860812522007-11-01T17:25:00.000-04:002007-11-01T17:25:00.000-04:00I believe that SOME criminals deserve the death pe...I believe that SOME criminals deserve the death penalty, and I believe that SOME terrorists deserve torture. Specifically, terrorists. Al Qaeda is not represented by a government or nation or country. They have declared war on the U.S., but they never agreed to any terms. They are not apart of the Geneva Convention. <BR/><BR/>If we have a "ticking time bomb" who we suspect is planning an attack on Americans, or knows second hand who is planning an attack, we would be STUPID to not waterboard the guy. He may be committed to keeping his lips sealed, but maybe not - we might break him, and save lives. Torture is not bad in every case. Some frame the debate as though it is a black and white issue, when it is not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-5648021582030944542007-10-31T19:30:00.000-04:002007-10-31T19:30:00.000-04:00As we debate the USA’s loosening stance on torture...As we debate the USA’s loosening stance on torture, legal rights, and due process in the war on terror, consider how Osama Bin Laden and his ilk are gloating and see these developments as “the gift that keeps on giving.” Bin Laden & Co. must see Americans as so quaking in their boots --- so terrified --- of Al Quada that 6 years after 9/11, they lower themselves to abandon the Geneva Convention, the Constitution, and their world allies. Bin Laden doesn’t even have to do a single thing --- fabricate propaganda, rail against the US, or commit another attack --- because we keep giving him this ammunition to damage the longstanding admiration of our friends and fuel the simmering hatred of our enemies. <BR/><BR/>We need to stop acting like a fearful people cowering in the corner and lashing out desperately against a potent foe. Americans used to project the image of a strong, can-do, brave people with “nothing to fear but fear itself.” Now the message is “We have everything to fear especially Bin Laden himself. <BR/><BR/>The biggest defeat for Bin Laden would be if Congress refuses to approve an Attorney General who will not disavow waterboarding, a technique the US successfully prosecuted as torture by the Japanese in WWII. This will show the world --- and Bin Laden et al --- that we are still a fearless and virtuous country. And we certainly need to stop giving Bin Laden and the extremists these endless victories by behaving otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-59251265143899154372007-10-11T19:52:00.000-04:002007-10-11T19:52:00.000-04:00hmmmmm...if water-boarding is effective to prevent...hmmmmm...if water-boarding is effective to prevent or perhaps get an individual to confess his/her plans to cause harm to anyone including our brave young men and woman in the military, GO FOR IT! If you dont think usama wouldn't pull your finger nails out and torture someone to death, you are living in a fantasy world. They hate you and I no matter where we stand on this issue, and nothing...I repeat...nothing will or could ever satisfy their hunger for power except the complete destruction of the west and Israel. Get it through your heads. <BR/>We have the means to defeat them, I just hope we somehow develop a will before they find the means.<BR/><BR/> It is very unfortunate that we live in a world so full of hate. However we have to deal with it. Its fueled by a religion of hate...yep I said it, Islam under the laws that 20 million muslims world wide accept is nothing but pure Evil. Even most moderate muslims refuse to speak out against the radical sect. How sad, seems thats how Hitler came to power isnt it? Wake up before its 2 late.IAMIRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03302655470414937931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-88139129390928738902007-10-11T14:06:00.000-04:002007-10-11T14:06:00.000-04:00If your getting waterboarded, there is probably a ...If your getting waterboarded, there is probably a reason. If your not being a fucking idiot, im sure you will not be in that situation. And to you fucking tree hugging, socialists, why dont you move to russia if it works so great. Ill stick to a capitalist republic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-57928552685495750232007-04-11T14:09:00.000-04:002007-04-11T14:09:00.000-04:00So why are they also using it in our city jails af...So why are they also using it in our city jails after you get picked up for a misdemeanor, which later gets dropped because the charges are false?<BR/><BR/>This technique has also been used in (county and state omitted) jail, though there you just get strapped down to the board and left for hours. How do I know? I was there in 2004 when it happened. It was me that it happened to. My offense was asking for a phone call after being picked up for public intoxication, which charges were later dropped after it was revealed that I was on medication from a doctor and under medical treatment. Sound outrageous?<BR/><BR/>Consider how physically threatening I am - I am a five-foot two white female that weighs about 98 pounds. And people wonder that our government does it to people that *aren't* US citizens? They shouldn't. All that they need to do is offend a police officer in their own country *verbally* and if it happens to be the wrong one they might find themselves in the same circumstance. Miscarriage of justice has become de riguer in our society.<BR/><BR/>I desire no publicity, and quite truthfully was so upset after this happened that it took me a while to even want to mention it. I just want to move on with my life, and forget it. The problem that I now face is that everywhere I look I am seeing this not as an isolated incident, but apparently a policy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1160135522739390582006-10-06T07:52:00.000-04:002006-10-06T07:52:00.000-04:00I was womdering if you knew anything about a form ...I was womdering if you knew anything about a form of torture whereby brain wave frequncies were read and manipulated to cause stress and pressure and paranoia causing the person to appear, act, and sometimes beleive that they are crazy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1159756795853091702006-10-01T22:39:00.000-04:002006-10-01T22:39:00.000-04:00THE VIDEO YOU REQUESTEDhttp://www.current.tv/video...THE VIDEO YOU REQUESTED<BR/><BR/>http://www.current.tv/video/?id=13462474Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1154663537981252392006-08-03T23:52:00.000-04:002006-08-03T23:52:00.000-04:00I commend you for speaking out against torture.I commend you for speaking out against torture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153975560426385252006-07-27T00:46:00.000-04:002006-07-27T00:46:00.000-04:00All of You Anti Bush and Anti War people are tortu...All of You Anti Bush and Anti War people are torturing me with your rhetoric. So your engaging in your own internet board torture on me with all the bullshit being typed.<BR/><BR/>Give the radical Muhammad-loving motherfuckers the chance and they will use nuclear warheads, poison gas or whatever means necessary to destroy those who do not believe the same. <BR/><BR/>You can research how men, women and children are put to death in this system for watching a soccer game. Because a soccer match is insulting to God? Read the papers about how many are put to death needlessly.<BR/><BR/>So for whatever reason or excuse there can be...( oil..pipelines of cash or whatever) ..you have to have a reason to wage war..don't you think these people need to stopped? <BR/><BR/>Are we the superpower or not. Do we stand by and let one group of people slaughter another without lifting one finger? Well that has been practiced by Dems and Reps for a long time.<BR/><BR/>The best defense is offense and taking the fight to them lets us continue on our non caring non voting who gives a fuck way of life. <BR/><BR/>Sorry just the way I see it..I bet over half the people writing on this blog would give Osama amnesty if gas had a fixed price of 1.00 a gallon for 5 years. <BR/><BR/>Hell half of you sounds like you would wash his feet...fucking traitors <BR/><BR/>I on the other hand would pay 5.00 a gallon for the chance to give him 2000-3000 lashes he deserves <BR/><BR/>This guy along with others deserves the best trauma doctors in the world just to keep him alive so he can feel the enormous pain he has inflicted with his radical ways<BR/><BR/>Torture?? I think its validationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153955830527641222006-07-26T19:17:00.000-04:002006-07-26T19:17:00.000-04:00Sorry you got fired, but as a contractor, you shou...Sorry you got fired, but as a contractor, you should have known that if the customer doesn't like a single thing you do, then they can complain to your company. If your company feels it was a valid complaint, they won't want people like that representing their name. It's all about politics, money, and who gets awarded the next contract. It may not be right, but that is contracting life within DoD. <BR/><BR/>I am a regular blogger, but I'll go anon on this to protect my own identity. You never know who is watching.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153894758219690092006-07-26T02:19:00.000-04:002006-07-26T02:19:00.000-04:00I agree that waterboarding must be torture to watc...I agree that waterboarding must be torture to watch. I feel terrible for all of the government officials forced to do it.Jon Swifthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02130944579317556923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153874775507428352006-07-25T20:46:00.000-04:002006-07-25T20:46:00.000-04:00First, let me thank you for your service to our co...First, let me thank you for your service to our country. More importantly, let me thank you for having a conscience and the courage to speak out.cliff michaelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716008890770660441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153861126561757472006-07-25T16:58:00.000-04:002006-07-25T16:58:00.000-04:00This will be interesting. I'm ignorant but look f...This will be interesting. I'm ignorant but look forward to reading the discussion.Doug The Unahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04753071669562594194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153858535294435722006-07-25T16:15:00.000-04:002006-07-25T16:15:00.000-04:00You're a brave person and I wish you all the succe...You're a brave person and I wish you all the success in finding new employment if you haven't done so already. You're one of my personal heroes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153856581671987422006-07-25T15:43:00.000-04:002006-07-25T15:43:00.000-04:00Lisa said :"I do understand your position but this...Lisa said :<BR/><BR/>"I do understand your position but this firing smells political.<BR/><BR/>I hate to see that sort of thing going on at CIA."<BR/><BR/>As I said, it seems she was "under the radar" while posting about the cafeteria, etc. Posting something derogatory of her client just brought her to the surface. <BR/><BR/>Do you really think it would be different at any other organization?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153834390623027452006-07-25T09:33:00.000-04:002006-07-25T09:33:00.000-04:00There is no freedom of speech in this country. The...<I>There is no freedom of speech in this country. There is no morality in government. There is no morality in the Capitalist system. I'll shed no tears the day it'll go down at the end of affordable energy.</I><BR/><BR/>Replaced by what, Dr Ruckl? <BR/><BR/>Capitalism isn't the problem. Capitalism isn't inherently bad, any more than any system is inherently bad. What we have going on in this country is a form of amoral capitalism which even Adam Smith said would never work. <BR/><BR/>Corporatism is the enemy, not capitalism. <BR/><BR/><BR/>--Lisathailandchanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171731740204067889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153834223661517492006-07-25T09:30:00.000-04:002006-07-25T09:30:00.000-04:00She was using a system designed for officers to co...<I>She was using a system designed for officers to collaborate on work issues. </I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Anonymous, provided your information is absolutely correct and I worded that badly: Why didn't they fire her when she wrote a post about cafeteria food? Was that using the system to facilitate officers collaborating on work issues? I do understand your position but this firing smells political. <BR/><BR/>I hate to see that sort of thing going on at CIA. <BR/><BR/><BR/>--Lisathailandchanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171731740204067889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153827060734167952006-07-25T07:31:00.000-04:002006-07-25T07:31:00.000-04:00I am sorry, Ms. Axsmith, the 'system' fired you.Th...I am sorry, Ms. Axsmith, the 'system' fired you.<BR/><BR/>The 'system' is the governmental-corporate gulag.<BR/><BR/>The neo-con system has no use of people with conscience, people who think, people who dare speaking out, speaking up. Bush-Cheney needs slaves who do what they are told with their conscience switched off.<BR/><BR/>B.A.E. Systems was worried that an employee with a conscience might aggrieve the hand that feeds them. That's why they fired you, signalling to the C.I.A. "trust us".<BR/><BR/>18 years ago I moved to the U.S. from Germany. Having traveled the country and learned to like Americans, I was thrilled then, enthusiastic. That enthusiasm shrank with every day I spent in this country. Today, my enthusiasm is nil, zero. Entirely unable to pledge allegiance to a system so evil, unjust and violent I see no chance of ever applying for citizenship.<BR/><BR/>Ms. Axsmith, I share your sad experience. What happened to you happened to me as an employed physician.<BR/><BR/>There is no freedom of speech in this country. There is no morality in government. There is no morality in the Capitalist system. I'll shed no tears the day it'll go down at the end of affordable energy.<BR/><BR/>I'll keep you and all other brave Americans in my thoughts.<BR/><BR/>Günther Rückl, MD<BR/>Decatur, Georgia<BR/>[not afraid any long to say who I am]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12371420.post-1153802976482202382006-07-25T00:49:00.000-04:002006-07-25T00:49:00.000-04:00It is hard to stomach how much fantasia is going o...It is hard to stomach how much fantasia is going on here. Do you people really live in the same world???<BR/><BR/>Some moron wrote:<BR/>Watch 'The Road to Guantanamo Bay' if you are interested in the way that we treat people who are not charged with any crime.??? <BR/><BR/>How are you supposed to treat people that want to harm you and your family because of their belief?? I'm sorry to sound jaded but I don't understand the sampling of the mentality going on here. <BR/><BR/>Bad guys want to hurt me..oh I know lets let him go and give him his self respect back and loan him some money and give him some aid. Then rebuild his country and armed forces ..thats it..<BR/><BR/>Then later at the loveshack we'll all be friends and laugh and play together and pass out balloons and popsicles and have a merry old time.<BR/><BR/>Fuck no you don't. You keep him locked up and throw away the key. <BR/>You dont need to charge him with anything ( He is the enemy) <BR/><BR/>The bottom line is..these people will kill you. They pray to their god everyday for the opportunity to do so while most of you <BR/>(incl. econo-girl) play with your blackberries and drink the latest flavor from starbucks while your supposed to be working. <BR/><BR/>Watercooler and blogging up ideas of giving these people from foreign lands.. the freedom and the rights our forefathers died protecting???<BR/><BR/>That sounds well ...pretty fucking absurd...please allow yourself at least 50 pounds of lead and meet with the amnesty and trial lawyers on the ocean floor summit soon...very soon because you people are fucking up the planetAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com